You can't put me in a box
Clubhouse.io/build. I've been telling you about it for weeks, months even. Clubhouse.i0/build. That coupon code will get you an extra 2 months free to try out Clubhouse with your team. What is it?
Justin:It's snappy project management software, lean, agile, Kanban, whatever your flavor, you're going to love Clubhouse. And I only have this week and next to tell you about it. So try it now. Clubhouse.i0/build.
Jon:Hey, everyone. Welcome to build your SaaS. This is the behind the scenes story of building a web app in 2019. I'm John Buddha, a software engineer.
Justin:And I'm Justin Jackson. I do product and marketing. Follow along as we build Transistor dot f m. Every it's weird that we say that intro every time because it it makes me think so much about, identity and the words we use to describe ourselves. And every time I say those words, I'm like, I do product and marketing.
Justin:I'm like, is that just the fact that we shoehorn ourselves into these little identities. Yeah. I I've just been camping, so I'm a little bit more philosophical than than normal. Like, you can't you can't put me in a box.
Jon:What does it even mean?
Justin:Yeah. I've been staring at the stars.
Jon:Yeah. Am I actually a software engineer? I don't know. Am I engineering anything?
Justin:Eventually, this podcast is just gonna be us, broadcasting from a cabin in the woods somewhere.
Jon:Yeah. Over pirate pirate radio.
Justin:Yeah. Over pirate radio. Yeah. So it's a long weekend here in Canada. Happy 24 to all my fellow Canadians.
Justin:What is it? Because there's 24, and I think 24 is also now now I'm gonna get my Canadian my Canadiana.
Jon:Is that the number 2 followed by a 4?
Justin:So it's the number 2 and then the number 4, 24. And it's also a case of beer containing 24 bottles. And so why is it called May 24? The holiday is colloquially known in parts of Canada as May 24, a double entendre that refers to both the date around which the holiday falls, May 24th, but the date can switch. This year, it was May 20th.
Justin:And the Canadian slang for a case of 24 beers, a 24.
Jon:So a lot of drinking?
Justin:There there is a lot of drinking typically. I am still on my new alcohol Alright. Kick. So, which actually reminds me. I think if now you you're more hip than I am, so I should ask you this question.
Justin:But do you remember, in the nineties, smart drinks? Like, there were smart drink bars that were all night. So the regular bar would close, and then all the rave kids would wanna go to the all night clubs. But the all night clubs couldn't serve alcohol, and so they would have to serve smart drinks. Is this Like caffeine or what?
Justin:Yeah. Some of them were caffeine. Some of them were, just, you know, full of, yeah, vitamins and who knows what else. Right?
Jon:No. I was I either that was not a thing here or I was not in that scene.
Justin:Interesting. Well, I have this theory that I think that's gonna come back that and, of course, everyone listening is like, well, you Justin thinks this because he's not drinking alcohol, but bear with me for a second. And there's a few startups in San Francisco that have just started around this. But the idea of having a non alcoholic drink that feels like a great alcoholic drink.
Jon:Yeah.
Justin:A non alcoholic drink that has all the mystery and, romance and feel of drinking booze, but is non alcoholic. And there's this one company. What are they called? It's called I'll put this in the show notes. It's called Kin Euphorics.
Justin:All bliss, no booze. Elevate your state without the hangover. And they have, oh, we turn to an ancient remedy and modern alchemy to create euphorics, an adult beverage made from nourishing nootropics, balancing aptogens, and replenishing botanics that opens the mind, calms the body, and connects the spirit. Now this is a little bit
Jon:too Yeah. That's a little bit markety markety spirit.
Justin:It's a little bit too much. But I'm gonna put this in the show notes because I think I just wanna put a stake in the ground and say, I think this is gonna happen. And I wanna just be on record to say, I think these kinds of non alcoholic drinks are going to have a comeback. Smart drinks was the first maybe iteration. And, they're gonna be marketed not like 0% beer, which is kind of like, who who really wants to buy that?
Justin:But a kind of a something that you would be proud to take to a party and wouldn't be embarrassed of.
Jon:Yeah. I could see that. It's a good idea. Maybe you can start your own line.
Justin:Well, I think, I think we are gonna start our own line, John. That's our next thing. If this if this doesn't work out, mark my words. It's gonna be a thing. And I it's probably already taken.
Justin:I'm gonna say it right now. Just so maybe should I say yeah. I'll say it. I I think sober is a great name for my line, but it's probably already taken. Let's see.
Justin:Sober drinks. By the way, when I need to find, like, see if a name is taken, I usually go to, trademarkia first. Okay. Here we go. Yeah.
Justin:There are, oh, there's a few things, but no. No. I think I'm good. I'm good. Anyway.
Justin:So
Jon:Alright. Check back in a couple years and see where that market's at.
Justin:K. I wish there was a way we could you know how you can set, like a well, there's Boomerang, which allows you to set, you know, snooze an email for, like, a couple weeks. I wish we could do that more with everything. Like, just bookmark this conversation and just say, hey, just remind me in, you know, a year.
Jon:It'll notify you later. Yeah. I bet there's an I bet there's an app for that.
Justin:I'm sure there is. Most people probably just put it in their calendar. But, so I've been gone. I'm out of the loop. But what have you been up to?
Justin:It's you you shipped something.
Jon:I did. Yeah. Something I've been kind of working on for a bit on and off, and that is moving our RSS feeds over to their own CDN.
Justin:Okay. Can you explain this to me? Why do we wanna do this?
Jon:There's a couple a couple reasons. So RSS feeds generally are just hammered all day long by apps that are indexing podcasts. So, since we're not actually distributing updates to all the platforms as they happen, all the platforms like Apple and Google and Spotify, they have to keep checking RSS feeds all the time to see, if there's changed information, updated information, new episodes. And since, you know, not everyone's on, like, a regular schedule, they can't just say, alright. I'm gonna check this once a day or once a week on Tuesday at 8 in the morning it'd be good.
Jon:So it's literally, like, each feed probably gets hit, like, thousands and thousands of times a day.
Justin:Mhmm. I'm actually somebody was just talking I think it was James Cridland. He was saying, we really need, you know, if for podcasting to kinda move forward, we need to move past this idea that we're just gonna ping an RSS feed all day long.
Jon:Yeah. It's really inefficient. So up until now, all those requests were actually being handled straight through our Rails app.
Justin:Mhmm.
Jon:I mean, they were they were cached, for a while until there's basically an update. So you're not necessarily hitting the database every time, but it's still a request that's sending out data.
Justin:Mhmm.
Jon:It's a web request. And if it's you know, those things are just getting thousands of requests Second? A minute? I mean, that our RSS feed endpoint just gets slammed. So it's not it wasn't really so much a performance issue.
Jon:It wasn't really affecting our app. Mhmm. But it was more so, like, offloading bandwidth from Amazon
Justin:Gotcha.
Jon:To something else because Amazon bandwidth just sort of adds up to a lot over time. So
Justin:Mhmm. So this is just another way to optimize our app and rely less on this expensive infrastructure.
Jon:Right. Yep. So I switched everything over, I think, on Thursday or Friday night, and seems to all be good. There's, you know, a number of things that you have to test out, making sure that the cache on the CDN is expired as soon as someone publishes a new episode or as soon as they change something or as soon as they update their show, change their art workout, all those have to be kinda synchronized. Mhmm.
Jon:And that all sort of just happens in the background. Like, if someone's hosting with us and they add a new episode, even if they schedule it, at the point that that episode is is live, it will actually hit the CDN and expire the RSS feed that's stored there. Mhmm. And just basically expires instantly. And, you know, the CDN hits our app and reads a new one and stores it on their servers.
Jon:And then so it's only one request per update really versus, you know, 1,000 and 1,000. So the CDN is getting hit.
Justin:Sweet. Sweet.
Jason:So, yeah, it's a it's a good update. I mean,
Jon:it's a small thing that no one really noticed, but Yeah. Kinda kinda a big big thing for us.
Justin:Yeah. That's kind of that's kind of the name of the game, isn't it? You you have to optimize both ends. You have to
Jon:Yeah. It's a small little small little tweaks and
Justin:How do you feel like, it's been a few weeks now since we got back from Portland. How do you feel about, you know, our progress since we got back? Are we kind of do you yeah. Do you feel like we're on it? Where you feel like we're progressing nicely?
Jon:I think we I think we are. Yeah. I mean, I know the big things we talked about we haven't really started on. We haven't really talked about it since Portland. Mhmm.
Jon:So in that respect, maybe not. Mhmm. Mhmm. But then again, like, I think like I said before, I don't necessarily have huge chunks of time to devote to new features Mhmm. At the moment.
Jon:So kind of, like, getting some of the smaller ones done in preparation for the big ones is still, I think, good progress.
Justin:Yeah. Yeah. That's kind of the way. You know, I had this again, I must be in this post camp, bliss or something, because I'm riding my bike to my office. And as I'm riding, I you know, I knew I had to be here around 6:30.
Justin:And there's this state of my life. I'm I'm sure actually I was like this before I left. I just felt like I needed to get everywhere fast. I needed to get everywhere efficiently. You know, there's all these time management techniques, ways to optimize your time and your energy.
Jon:Yep.
Justin:Maybe maybe it's just I inhaled a lot of campfire smoke.
Jon:Yeah. How how many s'mores did you eat?
Justin:Oh, man. The question is how many s'mores did my kids eat? You will not believe. It is it is insanity. How many marshmallows those kids can eat?
Justin:But, you know, but there is something about that. You know, we're camping. We're enjoying these moments together. Everything kinda slows down. And then I'm back in the real world and I'm like, why are we sometimes in such a rush?
Justin:And there there's certainly again, like any anything, there's a middle ground here. You can't just lay back and be lazy. But there is something about not over optimizing for efficiency and speed, because I think a lot of that energy gets wasted just like running fast on a treadmill.
Jon:Yeah. That's a good that's a very good point. I think that leads into what I was gonna talk about.
Jason:Yes.
Jon:So, yeah. I was listening to I was at the gym biking, and I was listening to a podcast because the weather wasn't great. I had to hop on a bike, which is really, really boring. And it was, the Tim Ferriss Show, which I don't generally listen to, but, he's mentioned that Derek Sivers was on, who is, I I guess, well known in the start up tech community for building, CD Baby, oh, in the late nineties and then sold it, I don't know, 10, 12 years later.
Justin:And he still has one of the kind of original great blogs.
Jon:Yeah. And he's just I think he just has a good kind of perspective on growing a business. Mhmm. And a lot of, like, a little just, like I don't know. A lot of little points that he made, it just really resonated.
Jon:Like, nothing he said on the show was really new for I mean, I've heard it before from him. Mhmm. Just because I've, you know, loosely followed him over the years, but, he did talk a lot about kind of, like, how he built CD Baby slowly Mhmm. And kind of the way he works. He he had a couple good metaphors or maybe not metaphors, but, like, stories that he told that sort of kind of set up the way he works.
Jon:They were, like, big life changing moments, and one of them was was, him talking about this bike ride. He used to, when he lived in LA, he used to bike, like, every morning on this lakefront path that was, like, it's, like, a 50 mile bike ride or 40 mile bike ride or something like that. Woah. So and, like, back and forth. And for a while, he was like, I'm just gonna get on this bike every morning or a few times a week.
Jon:I forget exactly. But he just wanted to, like, push it as hard as he could. Yeah. So he's he, like, starts his watch and just, like, hauls until he has to turn around halfway, you know, and, like, come back. Yeah.
Jon:And he would he would time himself, and he said, like, every time I did that, I would finish in, like, 43 minutes.
Justin:Mhmm.
Jon:I was, like, pushing as hard as I could. I didn't really, like, look at anything around me or appreciate anything. And then he said one day, he was just like he got sick of of thinking about getting up and biking because he associated he associated it with pain and, like, suffering. Mhmm. And it wasn't fun any longer, so he's like, I'm just gonna take this ride nice and easy today and, and just, like, enjoy the ride.
Jon:He said it was, like, a really nice ride, and he was just, like, you know, saw some dolphins in the ocean or whatever. And then so he, you know, goes halfway and turns around and stops his watch, and he finished in 45 minutes. So, like, he saved he he was only 2 minutes slower, and it was a much more enjoyable experience.
Justin:Yeah. That is such a perfect story. That's actually one of the few I haven't heard from him, because I'm a huge Sivers fan. I I I've read a lot of his stuff. There is something about that idea, isn't there?
Jon:And there's, like yeah. There there really is. It's, like, you don't really need to rush everything. You can't you can't get everything done. I don't know.
Jon:In in the time frame, you think you can, I think? I mean, I think Tim made a point or maybe Derek. I forget. But one of them said that, like, humans generally underestimate or overestimate how much they can do in a week, but underestimate how much they can do in a year.
Justin:Yeah. Yeah.
Jon:So if you just don't think about everything at once, and not try not to get everything done as, like, as fast as possible, like, everything's a deadline and everything has to be rushed, then, you know, you probably will end up with the same result. You'll just be much less stressed out.
Justin:I think we overestimate what we can also do in a decade.
Jason:Like this and, you know,
Justin:I I'm thinking about I really do feel like you and I are I can't maybe I'm just camp this post camp. Wow. It's just that as I'm on my bike ride, I was just thinking, man, John and I are so lucky to be in this moment. Mhmm. We have this business that's growing.
Justin:We are enjoying the work. We haven't experienced something really hard yet, and it's gonna happen. And but right now, this is just a great moment. And I wanted to kind of live in this a bit. And just even again, maybe put a flag here for 5 or 10 years when things are hard.
Jon:Mhmm.
Jason:But there
Justin:is something about just getting to enjoy what you're doing and enjoying the place that you're in. Instead of, you know, I yes, I want to get to this other level. Yes. I wanna get to the point where we can pay ourselves a full time salary. Yeah.
Justin:I I aspire to those things, but I'm just really enjoying now.
Jon:Yeah. I mean, it's yeah. Absolutely. I think he maybe talks about that a little bit as far as, like, money goes and, like, why you're building something, but, like, he sold for I don't know what he's he sold for multiple 1,000,000 of dollars.
Justin:Mhmm.
Jon:But then sort of, like, gave it all away. He, like, set up a trust Mhmm. In this, like, musical found music foundation because he's a musician too. And he's just like, I I have what I need, and, like, I don't I don't I don't need anymore. Mhmm.
Jon:Like, I'm I'm enjoying this. I, you know, I'm building something I like, and I like helping people out. I don't know. There's definitely several ways to look at it, but kinda like I like his perspective.
Justin:Right. Yeah. I really like his perspective without, you know, the the I think you could be cynical and say, well, that's that's nice for Derek Sivers or, you know, that's a fine ideology way to go. But there is, there is something that I the more I live and the older I get, the more truth about this the more truth I see in this, which is just if you can learn to enjoy what you're doing now
Jon:Mhmm.
Justin:And this goes back to this conversation, which my wife reminds me of all the time where we were talking about, would we take 5,000,000 each for Transistor? And I one of the things I've thought about since then, and I mentioned this then too, is just I just enjoy what I'm doing now. And so if all of a sudden we got bought by Adobe, and I have to go work at Adobe headquarters. And I now I have a boss that I don't like, and now I have to wear a shirt and tie. And now I have to be I'm at the office at 9, and I'm expected to be there till 6.
Justin:And And I have to go to 5 meetings a week, if I'm lucky. Right.
Jon:You wouldn't be doing what you like.
Justin:That's the thing. Yeah. And certainly, if I get too tired and weary from this, I'm gonna hope there's some sort of parachute. And Adobe can certainly buy it then. But I just don't know what I would do.
Justin:Well, I'm not I shouldn't say I don't know what I do, but I I'm just trying to say I enjoy this, and I'm enjoying this moment. And I would be happy to do this for a long time.
Jon:Yeah. I would totally agree with that.
Jason:And so, and
Justin:maybe, actually this dovetails into something I wanna talk about. But first, let me do another shout out for Balsamiq because we are nearing the end of our cycle of sponsorships with Balsamiq. And today, I wanna tell you about something they like to compete on. Pelti, he's the founder, says that competing on features is so nineties. The software industry has matured enough in that most products that solve the same problem have the same set of features, and we've certainly seen that with Transistor.
Justin:Balsamiq is different. They decided early on to compete on 2 things, usability and customer service. Now usability means how easy and fun your software is to use, and we've already talked about that. But customer service, that's support, technical, and sales related, and they've always invested a lot in that. Their support team is spread from the Bay Area all the way to La France, and their priority is to make sure you're happy when using balsamic.
Justin:They are empowered to go to the literal ends of the earth to make sure that this is the case. That reminds me, I watched The Hobbit. I watched all 3 Hobbit movies while we were camping. That was the only technology we had. Balsamic is so solid that you may never need their help, but you shouldn't hesitate to reach out if you run into a question or a problem.
Justin:They care about you and your success with the app. This will be apparent the first time you talk to them. You can meet the support team yourself at balsamic.com/support. I see, I have notes kinda all over the place, but I wanted to mention my friend Derek Reimer just wrote this piece. And, it's called, I'm walking away from the product I spent a year building.
Justin:I'm gonna put it in the show notes if you haven't read it already. It's great. I like Derek a lot. Him and Ben Orenstein do the, art of product podcast, where every week they update each other on their progress. They both kind of started a year or so ago
Jon:Mhmm.
Justin:Launching their, sorry, deciding to build their own products. So Ben is building Tuple, and Derek is building this Skype competitor Skype. This Slack competitor called Level. And he just decided to walk away from it. And like any good podcast listener, I am really invested in Derek's story.
Justin:I've been listening to his updates. Actually, it's probably more than a year now. And I've been rooting for him. I've been rooting for Ben too. I I just feel like I'm a part of their journey.
Justin:And, in the last few weeks listening to the show, I could tell, oh, wow. Derek is really wrestling with some big things. And Mhmm. Basically, he's realized that if he wants to bootstrap a a product, it's going to be very difficult to do that and compete against Slack. And he also kinda realized that there just wasn't enough momentum.
Justin:So he had all these good early signs, like he was doing the things you're supposed to do, like customer calls, you know, interviewing people. He wrote this manifesto that got a ton of traction about how Slack is bad for teams and how it distracts developers all day. He launched a sign up page where you could reserve your level handle. And he had, I think, 6,000 people join that. It might even be more.
Justin:And, you know, all these good signs and everything. But at the end of the day, when it came to people actually switching from Slack to something else, it just wasn't there. I mean, having had to walk away from my own projects in the past, and you've had this too. I think we can identify with how hard that is to, you know, to leave something. But the the flip side of that, maybe the more optimistic side is I go, man, the journey really is the thing.
Justin:Like, you know, did Derek waste a year of his time and his life building this thing? To me, it just all adds up. And I think we need to start as product people and bootstrappers and founders and makers. We do need to start thinking about it that way, that these are just all layers that get added to our life. And then eventually, you know, well, eventually nothing.
Justin:We just keep going. Like, it doesn't end until we die. Right?
Jon:Right.
Justin:And to me, there's something exciting about that. That I I would if if transistor got blown up tomorrow, I wouldn't feel like, well, damn it. You know? That's that's it. My life is over.
Jon:Right. Yeah. It doesn't it doesn't define your life.
Justin:It in a way, it does, but it's it defines my life in a way that this is just the journey I'm on right now.
Jon:Right. And Yeah. It defines a period of your life. Yeah. Yeah.
Jon:I mean, it it you know, maybe in a year, one of us will be like, I don't wanna do this anymore. Something will happen. Something will change.
Justin:The the the nonalcoholic drink space really heats up.
Jon:Yeah. Justin's euphoric drinks really takes off.
Justin:Yeah. I'm, like, I gotta I gotta chase this man. Yeah. I it it I think the the the nice thing about this article though is it really gets at this tension that we all have, which is, of course, we all want our product to succeed. Mhmm.
Justin:Like, of course, we want that. And of course, we wanna know all the right steps and all of the right things to do in order to get, you know, somewhere. But at the end of the day, the only thing you can really do is, you know, point your ship in a direction that you think makes sense, and just hope for good weather, and hope you make it to your destination. Right? And then you're gonna get there, and then you're gonna think, okay.
Justin:Well, now I gotta go to the next place. That that is just kind of the way it is. And one thing that I also appreciated about Derek's piece is that, you know, once you start doing this, once you start making your own stuff, once you start kind of building your own future. So on one hand, you're making things for other people and that's one part of it. And the other side, you're building your own future.
Justin:Once you start doing this, you kinda never stop. You just keep going. So, yeah, it's definitely worth to read. He mentions, that that this this, quote from this book that I actually I really do not like the title. It's called the mom test, which I I I think we've said that's kind of like a sexist.
Justin:I don't know. But apparently the book is great, but the title is the subtitle of the book is how to talk to customers and learn if your business is a good idea You can ask people what they'll pay for. You can ask them what they think is a good idea. At the end of the day, the only thing that matters is when people actually sign up and pay you. Right?
Jon:Yeah.
Justin:And keep using the product. So, Yeah. I think I thought that was good too. The whole thing's great.
Jon:I'm gonna have to give it a read.
Justin:Yep. People should go and check it out.
Jon:It was probably pretty therapeutic for him to write this. Mhmm. And for and for other people to read it.
Justin:Yeah.
Jon:But, yeah, it's it's a hard thing to do.
Justin:And maybe that's the downside of of doing this in public. I think there's lots of benefits. You know, it's one thing to be working on something by yourself in your basement, and then it doesn't work out, you can go, oh, hey. Alright. Well
Jon:yeah,
Justin:that's that. But when you have so many people that are also invested in it with you, I think sometimes there can be this feeling of, oh, I can't stop. There's so many people counting on this, you know.
Jon:Right.
Justin:They're they want they want the story to end well.
Jon:Yeah. I mean, it's also I'm I'm, like, skimming this article as you're talking, and it's it's also, I think, a little bit of a different situation. As like you mentioned, you're building something, let's say, in your basement or your parents' basement or, you know, depending on what age you are. Like, Derek Derek mentions in here, he's like, my idea the profitability means for me covering covering my family's cost of living and all the business expenses and taxes and Mhmm. Such and such, and it's, like, 10 to 15,000 a month in revenue.
Jon:Mhmm. And, I think it I don't know, it's it's probably a much different set of, I don't know, stresses or, like, it's a much much different situation than let's say just, like, trying to build something when you don't necessarily have all of those responsibilities or expenses.
Justin:Yeah. The constraints of your situation. That's another thing, isn't it?
Jon:Yeah. Yeah.
Justin:There you know, there's this, I have a friend in Vancouver. Him and his girlfriend built a business on the App Store. And, no, they wanted to meet with me for lunch in Vegas. We're at a conference and, you know, I really enjoyed being with them. But immediately, I was like, these folks are young.
Justin:You know, they are young. Mhmm. And I'm like, how did you do this? This is incredible what you've built here. Because it really was incredible.
Justin:He said, well, man, it was really tough. We lived in our parents basement for, you know, a couple years. And, you know, that that that is a tremendous asset if you if you have it. It's great to be able to do that. Mike at FreshBooks did the same
Jon:thing. Okay.
Justin:But it is harder Yeah. Once you get older and you've got these other constraints on you. Now, I don't think constraints are necessarily a bad thing. That was the other thing I wanted to mention. I I Yeah.
Jon:No. I absolutely not. I think they're they are definitely a necessary thing.
Justin:I was listening to the Conan O'Brien podcast. Conan is a friend with Howard Stern.
Jon:Mhmm.
Justin:And, you know, they were Conan was talking about how people sometimes pitch him shows that are meant to be really edgy. And and he said, it it didn't work. He was watching this pilot and didn't work because he said
Speaker 4:The funniest thing in the world is give someone restraint. You need to create restraint. You need to create, it's how engines work. You make a confined space, and then you create all this energy and it's got nowhere to go and it pushes the car forward.
Justin:But there's something about that that's so true too of having this constraint. Like in Derek's case, he's like, listen. My constraint is this thing needs to make 10 to 15 k. And once you've outlined, you know, those constraints, then it makes it easier to make decisions. He looked at level, and he said, this isn't gonna work.
Justin:It's not gonna work with the time frame I have. And so as hard as it is to walk away from something, you can say, okay, well, I'm done. Right?
Jon:Yeah. But he, you know, he came away from that probably learning a bunch of different lessons and just like things that will carry him into the next, I don't know, phase of his life or next whatever project he picks up.
Justin:Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. And I think that's why, again, in this kinda post camping bliss I'm in right now, like, all the folks listening to this right now that wanna build their own SaaS or their own software company. I get it.
Justin:Like, on one hand, we just need to be driven. We need to have that feeling, that that itch, that that we can't, you know, like, we've gotta we've gotta do this. And and and wanna do it well too. Right? Like, we don't wanna just put something out and it not be great.
Justin:But on the other hand, let's also learn to just enjoy the journey.
Jon:Yeah. Maybe you can pedal pedal 2 minutes slower.
Justin:Pedal 2 minutes slower. That'd be a good show title. Yeah. I think that's good for me. I anything else you wanna say this week?
Jon:I don't think so. No. Cool. It's, it's late in the evening.
Justin:It's late in the evening. I I hope you folks are cycling into a sunset listening to this right now. It's chilling out. Again, if you folks wanna reach out to us on Twitter, we're at transistorfm. You can also email us, shows at transistor dotfm.
Justin:Yeah. You you folks have been finding ways to get a hold of us. Just, we love hearing from you. And, John, we have 2 new Patreon supporters. I can't wait to hear you pronounce these folks' names.
Justin:Why don't you go through the list?
Jon:You you have you have a little bit of help on one of them.
Justin:You know, that was smart.
Jon:I don't think I would've I don't think I would've said that one correct.
Justin:No. I wouldn't have either.
Jon:So thanks as always to our, our Patreon supporters for, helping out with the production of this show. We have, yeah, 2 new people, Ivan Kerkovic.
Justin:Oh, yeah. I think you're right. Yeah. Good good work.
Jon:Okay. And Brian Ray.
Justin:Brian Ray.
Jon:I would have said that I probably would have said that, Raya.
Justin:Yes. Yeah. That, Brian, good job with that was I I messaged him on Patreon to say Okay. Thank you, Brian Ray, because that was very helpful.
Jon:And then then we have, Miguel Piedraffita.
Justin:Yes.
Jon:I I think that's right.
Justin:Yeah. He hasn't he hasn't messaged us to say, you know and he's a teenager, so he he would have no problem speaking his mind if it you know?
Jon:Shane Smith, Austin Loveless, Simon Bennett, Corey Hanes, Michael Sittver, Paul Jarvis, and Jack Ellis, Dan Buddha, my brother, danbudda.com, Darby Frey, Samori Augusto, Dave Young, Brad from Canada, Kevin Markham, Sammy Schuichert, Dan Erickson, Mike Walker, Adam Devander, Dave Junta.
Justin:I follow him on Instagram now.
Jon:Oh, nice.
Justin:Yeah. I I I'm just getting I'm I'm going further down. You know, it's like it starts with the name, and then I just keep going. Now I'm I'm I'm I'm waist deep. You know?
Justin:I'm I'm experiencing as much junta as I can.
Jon:Kyle Fox from get rewardful.com, Clubhouse, and Balsamiq. Yeah. Thanks again to everyone.
Justin:Thanks, folks. We will see you next week.
