Jon: 00:12

Hey, everyone. Welcome to Build Your SaaS. This is the behind the scenes Story of building a web app in 2022. I'm John Buda, a software engineer.

Justin: 00:21

And I'm Justin Jackson, and I've Got the meat sweats. Jon.

Jon: 00:30

Hey, Justin. I'm sitting next to you.

Justin: 00:32

We are actually in the same location.

Jon: 00:36

Yeah. For the first time in two and a half years.

Justin: 00:39

Yeah. We We've been wanting to do this founder retreat forever. The pandemic made it not possible. Yeah. And Here we are.

Jon: 00:49

We bit the bullet.

Justin: 00:50

Bit the bullet. Well, you bit the bullet. I bit

Jon: 00:52

the bullet.

Justin: 00:53

You had to you had to go through all the travel.

Jon: 00:54

Not exactly the best time to travel.

Justin: 00:57

The funny thing is we were looking at because John has come to British Columbia, which is pretty fun for me. I get to show him around my hometown of Vernon. We went up to Silver Star. We, did a road trip to Revelstoke.

Jon: 01:12

Yep.

Justin: 01:13

And, we're here in the rockies, and it's been super fun. But then I was looking up on the, on the news here, and, Revelstoke is currently The the has the highest incidence of COVID in

Jon: 01:27

Right.

Justin: 01:27

British Columbia. So we we basically I I took I took you to the hot spot.

Jon: 01:35

Thanks, Justin.

Justin: 01:36

To the COVID hot spot of British Columbia.

Jon: 01:39

So far so good.

Justin: 01:40

Yeah. So far so so far so good. It is it's hard to explain how Good it is to be together after so long. Yeah. Just the the Like, two and a half years was a long time.

Jon: 01:56

It's a long time. Yeah. It simultaneously feels like a long time and somehow not that long. I don't know if it's just the pandemic compressing time down to Yeah. Weird weird amounts of length, but, yeah, it's been a long time.

Justin: 02:09

Yeah. Yeah. And the I think the benefit, You you kinda forget about the benefit, but there's just, like, just we had hours in the car, and there's just At first, it's kinda like it you're just spending time. And even if it's just silence the car, There's something about being in the same place. And then eventually, in all of the gaps of hanging out, There's, like, just tons of benefit both in terms of, like, our friendship.

Justin: 02:44

Like, it's good to be together. But then also in terms of, like, Being able to talk about things in the business that you wouldn't normally have the gaps in Yeah. You wouldn't normally have the gaps to talk about. Yeah.

Jon: 02:58

We're not, yeah, we're not gonna hop in a video call and talk about and hang out for 8 hours.

Justin: 03:03

Yeah.

Jon: 03:04

Right? And just, Yeah. It's a lot different.

Justin: 03:07

So, yeah, we've been doing, some road tripping, some snowboarding. Went up to Revelstoke and had a couple days there. Lots of eating out. And last night, we had, Le Cote De Beauuf, which is A fancy French way of saying a bone in rib eye steak that was unbelievably

Jon: 03:29

Massive. Yeah. I don't think we knew what we were getting into, but

Justin: 03:34

No.

Jon: 03:34

It was it was tasty.

Justin: 03:37

There's an amazing photo of John next to this thing. It's just like, It looks Helen in our chat said it looks like a cartoon. It's like it's like a cartoon steak.

Jon: 03:47

Yeah.

Justin: 03:49

It was amazing.

Jon: 03:50

Yeah. So I get to experience a bit of Canada.

Justin: 03:53

Yeah. Yeah. This has been really fun. I the The weather here got really warm while you came, which was a little bit too bad. But, yeah, I'm I'm glad Glad you came.

Jon: 04:05

Yeah. It's been great.

Justin: 04:07

So, yeah, we've been thinking and doing some planning. Just a few things we I think we could share that might be interesting for folks. 22 2022 kind of road map.

Jon: 04:20

Yeah.

Justin: 04:20

But Just thinking about what are the things we could accomplish this year, and more specifically, like, in the next, 4 months probably. And the big thing we've we've kind of narrowed in on is the, improving the podcast website builder.

Jon: 04:38

Yeah. And

Justin: 04:39

you and Jason had already we had it on our list for this year, and then, Jason, it sounds like, was pretty excited about it. And start working on, like, a liquid templating engine or something?

Jon: 04:52

Yeah. Yeah. We're gonna kinda re yeah. Redo how we do websites and Use liquid templates to eventually give people a much more flexibility on how they can just Manage and build out and customize their websites. Yeah.

Jon: 05:06

So it should be I mean, those websites have been around in the same form pretty much since day 1 Yeah. Yeah. With little little additions here and there, but pretty much they're the one of the older parts of the app at this point.

Justin: 05:20

One of the things we've been talking about is making Transistor, the kind of most recommended podcast platform. And what's in the way of, Like, what how do we get there? You know? How do we, like, actually achieve that? And, like, having incredible websites that people recommend is on that list.

Justin: 05:39

And then as a part of that, should we talk about the free stuff?

Jon: 05:45

Maybe not yet. I don't know. Okay.

Justin: 05:46

We'll we'll keep we'll keep that under our belt. So, yeah, there'll be some new podcast website templates based on liquid. We're gonna kinda rebuild what we have right now And then keep going.

Jon: 05:58

Yeah. I mean, we have years of years of, feature requests and just, like, Little nitpicky things I think we've thought about that we haven't quite worked on yet. Mhmm.

Justin: 06:12

Yeah. That we can

Jon: 06:13

kinda integrate into the new version of the websites.

Justin: 06:16

Yeah. Yeah. Like, lots of stuff. Yeah. Yeah.

Justin: 06:18

So once we rebuild what we have, then we can gradually add some of those things people have been asking for. It's also a testament to, like you know, it would have been nice to have a better website builder earlier. But on the other hand, it's it's incredible how like, we just that. It was like and the, like, the about page is just HTML. Yeah.

Justin: 06:41

Like and it's been fine until now. Like, The

Jon: 06:45

Mostly.

Justin: 06:46

Yeah. I mean, it could be of course, it could be better, but I'm just saying, like, in in the grand scheme of things, Transistor has done well.

Jon: 06:54

Yeah. I mean, I think you have yeah. You have to pick your battles, and, like, we just didn't choose to focus on that even though we could've.

Justin: 07:00

Yeah. And It it also shows, like, just how having 2 extra people on the team really makes it feel like, okay. We can tackle this now.

Jon: 07:08

I think yeah. Yeah. I think with features like that, it's it is Beneficial to sort of sit on it and let it kinda stew in your brain for a while. Mhmm.

Justin: 07:17

Yeah.

Jon: 07:17

You know, or years in this case. But

Justin: 07:19

Yeah. I mean, sometimes just waiting is is a good strategy for sure. Yeah. And some other things we're excited about, helping Podcasters promote their show. Like, every podcaster wants more listeners, and so we're doing that.

Justin: 07:34

One thing we did, I think, that was, like, a last minute idea was we send out this newsletter with a photo of us on the retreat and asked people like, we said, hey. Here's some of the things we're looking at this year. But if you have ideas for us, email us. And they've been emailing us, with no ideas. Letting customers have a place for input.

Justin: 07:57

But also, There's this benefit of, just lots of people have kinda given us personal, greetings, because we have this, you know, this photo. And I think, leveraging the fact that we are a small company and, you know, it's It was just the 2 of us for a long time, and creating that personal connection with our customers. That was, like, kind of a last minute idea that was fun. Don't always have to be corporate. You know?

Justin: 08:24

It doesn't always have to be, like, the corporate the banner or whatever. Now do we wanna share some of the employee company stuff On that list there that we're putting on?

Jon: 08:33

Yeah.

Justin: 08:34

This is gonna be kind of a big deal for us, offering our Employees' options.

Jon: 08:40

Mhmm. I know it's a big, you know, it's a big deal for employees to kinda have a have a feel Feel like they have a stake in the game and a bit of a piece of the company, and, you know, we don't have any immediate plans to, like, be acquired or Anything like that, but having you know, giving our employees the option to succeed along with us. Mhmm. I think if that if that happens, then, Yeah. I think it's I think it's be great.

Jon: 09:08

I mean, I I've personally never had the benefit of even having that option, really.

Justin: 09:13

Yeah. Yeah. We we talked about that before too and how in, like, previous jobs, maybe we would have even stayed if Yeah. We had some skin in

Jon: 09:23

the game. Yeah. Yeah.

Justin: 09:24

So and I I think there's also something about this. Like, the further you go along, the easier it is to not do this stuff. But if we implement it now, and I think we're gonna use Carta, which is a lot what a lot of Startups used for, employee options. But, you know, giving Jason and Helen and then whoever else we hire, options. And I I think the other thing that's interesting about that conversation is We were talking about this in the car.

Justin: 09:58

This is one of those things that came up in the car. At that point, as soon as you do options, you're basically Setting up for an acquisitions at some point.

Jon: 10:09

Yeah. I mean, that's the really the only way to exercise those Yeah. In any meaningful way.

Justin: 10:14

So I think it brought up again, like, having having all this time together, it brought up these things that I don't know. Maybe I didn't even, like, wanna talk about in some ways, but was good to just chat about. And that one one of them is, like, okay. Let's Let's just put it on the table. Like, if we're gonna do options, that means eventually we are leading up to an acquisition.

Justin: 10:40

And I'm I'm getting closer to that idea that long term, whatever that means, That could be 3 years. That could be 5 years. That could be 10 years. But long term, we are eventually going to sell this company.

Jon: 10:56

Yeah.

Justin: 10:58

I mean, of course, there's a range of possible outcomes there. But

Jon: 11:01

Yeah. I mean, anything could happen in those years. And

Justin: 11:03

Yeah.

Jon: 11:04

We could, Yeah. Change our minds or the yeah. The market could completely tank. We don't really know.

Justin: 11:09

Yeah. Yeah. And I don't know what options will be, like, in terms of, like, crowdfunding. Like, maybe in the future, There's a way for employees to get liquidity through other means. You know?

Justin: 11:19

But it did kind of make me you you know, Josh, Pigford from BearMetrics has this quote, where he says, like, Justin, you're not gonna run this company forever. Just be honest with yourself. Like, eventually, most companies get acquired. Most companies are not Basecamp. They most companies eventually Exit.

Justin: 11:41

One of the anxieties I've had all along is, like, how long is this podcasting window gonna be open? I think the The future of podcasting is like, there's gonna be podcasting for a long time, but there's always a chance that it gets Very centralized.

Jon: 11:59

It I'm sure in the last, you know, in the last couple years, it's changed a lot. I'm sure in the next 5, it'll change in ways we can't even imagine yet.

Justin: 12:07

Yeah. So that was a good conversation to have and, like, kinda work through it. And, now we I gotta gotta do the hard work of figuring out Carta. And Mhmm. And, you know, along with that, like, we're definitely feeling some of the pains of being a smaller company.

Justin: 12:22

And as soon as like Like, now we have to file taxes in, like, 3 different places. We have to we're trying to figure out health benefits. We're trying to figure out you know, like, all this stuff Kinda comes up, and we're, you know, we're just a still a tiny company.

Jon: 12:39

Right. Yeah.

Justin: 12:40

But I I do like that idea of Like, already, Jason and Helen are so, in it. Like, you can just tell they're, like When we were talking about these new podcast websites on that call yesterday, it was like everyone is so excited about the potential and, You know, they're they're bought in. So to go that extra mile and then also give them a way of Mhmm. Sharing in the upside, That just seems like the right thing to do.

Jon: 13:07

Yeah. Absolutely.

Justin: 13:09

What else? Anything else we wanna talk about or anything else that we've kinda Experienced?

Jon: 13:14

Yeah. I don't know if you wanna talk about any sort of, like, marketing ideas. Or

Justin: 13:19

So one thing that came up Like, I've kind of centered around this idea of making Transistor the most recommended podcast platform. And so, What's motivating about that is it it kind of forced me to reach out to some of our affiliates and, figure out how we can better partner with them. So I wrote an email. This was like something else I found, like, just working alongside you. There's, like, certain things I've thought about doing, but I, just keep putting off.

Justin: 13:48

But after we talk about it, there's, like, this incredible momentum to,

Jon: 13:53

like make use of that. Yeah.

Justin: 13:54

I gotta I gotta just do it. So, jumped into email, sent a bunch of emails out, and now I've got a bunch of meetings booked with Some people to talk about how we can better partner with affiliates. And I think also this idea of rewarding our customers for referring us. Like, if we wanna be the most recommended, podcasting platform, what can we do to reward, existing customers. And there's there's ideas we could, like, maybe not make them full affiliates, But give them some sort of benefit for Yeah.

Justin: 14:31

Recommending, you know, like, discount on their plan or, credits on their plan, something like that. So I wrote some emails to, Kyle at Rewardful about that. And, the other thing that We're it's kinda happening happening organically is we did that integration with Descript, and then other people heard about it, and they've Reached out wanting to integrate. And so, on next Tuesday, I'm doing a big livestream with Descript as a part of that rollout. And then we've got calls with, Riverside wants to integrate with us, and SquadCast has a call booked.

Justin: 15:13

So it's all kinda and it all happens in January. Like, I've got a bunch of people wanting, podcast interviews and stuff too. So, yeah, the that's some of the marketing stuff I'm thinking about. We're still we still I still like to find something outside of affiliates that can really drive, a lot of traffic and then a lot of trials. And, affiliates and SEO have done the best at that.

Justin: 15:38

They're probably I don't know. Probably a third of our trials are from affiliates, and then I'd say a third is from SEO, and then a third is from Just like brand, people who know us, people who, like, have heard our story?

Jon: 15:54

I think some of the free stuff we're gonna do for the websites, which we can talk about later, will Oh, yeah. Yeah. Hopefully, help with some of that

Justin: 16:00

Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Jon: 16:00

Add to that, you know, I think in a way we haven't seen yet.

Justin: 16:03

Yeah. Actually, that could be huge. That's like That's maybe we should keep that close to our chest because it could be the biggest that could be the biggest driver of

Jon: 16:12

this ever.

Justin: 16:15

Cool. Yeah. So our plan today is to we're gonna pack up here right away and, drive home.

Jon: 16:22

Drive home. Get get me a COVID test for my flight.

Justin: 16:24

Oh, yeah. Gotta get a COVID test.

Jon: 16:26

And,

Justin: 16:27

I'm gonna show you a bit more BC. So far, you've seen Vernon, Silver Star, Revelstoke, and everything between Vernon and Revelstoke. But I think we'll go do some stuff in Kelowna.

Jon: 16:37

A lot of it is at night.

Justin: 16:39

And a lot. We drove a lot at night. Yeah. Yeah. Let's see

Jon: 16:43

what I can see.

Justin: 16:44

Yeah. It's pretty foggy out there right now.

Jon: 16:45

Yeah. But Saw a few eagles. Yeah. We had you had Flying around?

Justin: 16:49

The American spirit animal, flying around, reminding you the whole there's like a we're, like, right by a river. We overlook this jet. Well, the it's the Columbia.

Jon: 17:00

Yeah.

Justin: 17:00

Yeah. And, there's a bald eagle, I think, catching fish in the in the river Just saying, John, remember where you come from. Alright. And it is 2022, and we still have some wonderful people supporting us on Patreon. We certainly do.

Justin: 17:22

Thank those people, and then we'll pack up and go.

Jon: 17:24

Sounds good. Thanks again to everyone on Patreon. We have Marcel Falais At we are bold dotaf. Anton Zoran from prodcamp.com. Mitch, Harris Kenny, and the intro CRM podcast, Oleg Kulik, Ethan Gunderson, Diogo, Chris Willow, Ward Sandler from MemberSpace, Eric Lima, James Sours, Travis Fisher, Matt Buckley, Russell Brown, Avenger Sassy, Prada Yumenyschen Becker, Noah Praill, Colin Gray, Josh Smith, Ivan Krakovic, Shane Smith, Austin Loveless, Simon Bennett, Michael Sidfer, Paul Jarvis, and Jack Ellis, My brother, Dan Buddha, Darby Frey, Dave Young, Brad from Canada, Sammy Shukert, Adam Devander, Dave Junta.

Justin: 18:21

Junta.

Jon: 18:23

And Kyle Fox from GetRewardful .com.

Justin: 18:25

Thanks, everybody. We will see you soon. We're gonna hope to record more episodes.

Jon: 18:31

Yeah. Happy New Year, and, we'll see you soon.

Justin: 18:33

Yeah. Bye.